CPA Insights: Matt Bontrager on Smart Budgeting, Assets & Time Management

What's the real key to balancing a successful career and a happy family life? How does a top CPA manage time ruthlessly and prioritize tasks for maximum impact?

I'm diving into a fantastic conversation with Matt Bontrager, a CPA who's not just crunching numbers but also changing lives.

Join us as Matt opens up about his incredible journey, scaling his CPA firm from a humble $120,000 in its first year to an astounding $2.6 million in just three years. He's got the secret sauce to financial growth, and guess what?

It's not as complicated as you might think. Matt breaks down the essentials of budgeting, tracking expenses, and the smart habit of investing in assets that grow in value over time.

But it's not all finance and figures; Matt, a proud father of three also dives into the art of balancing a thriving business with a bustling family life. He shares his tips on being ruthlessly efficient with time and prioritizing tasks that truly move the needle. Plus, he's got some great advice on communication and leadership – skills that are crucial in any business setting.

Matt's story is more than just a tale of financial success; it's about being candid in your interactions, focusing on providing real value, and above all, being a well-rounded individual. Balancing the various aspects of life isn't easy, but Matt shows us how it's done.

As the Managing Partner of TrueBooks, Matt's expertise lies in helping real estate investors, high net worth individuals, and small businesses minimize their tax bills through strategic planning. An investor himself, Matt prefers long-term single-family rentals and multi-family syndications, bringing a wealth of practical knowledge to his clients.

So, whether you're a budding entrepreneur, a finance enthusiast, or someone just looking to get their money matters in order, you won't want to miss this episode. Let's get ready to dive deep with Matt and uncover the secrets to financial savvy and life balance!

Key Takeaways:
Efficient time management is crucial for balancing work and family life.
Wealthy individuals focus on buying assets that appreciate in value.
Budgeting and tracking expenses are essential for financial success.

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Transcript

[TRANSCRIPT]

0:00:00 - (Matt Bontrager): So I'm pretty open about this. My first year in business, we did 120,000 in gross. Our second year in business, we did 860. And our third year, last year, we did 2.6 million. So the growth has been like, okay.

0:00:14 - (Tawni Nguyen): So on social media, there's a couple videos that people have sent me about. One, writing down your dogs and your kids into your taxes. Because they're like, did you know you could write your dogs off as a guard dog on tactics for your business?

0:00:29 - (Matt Bontrager): That is true.

0:00:30 - (Tawni Nguyen): That's true. Right?

0:00:30 - (Matt Bontrager): So the angle that people are taking with that is like this quote lately that I've been thinking of, which is so dumb, but it's so easy. It's like, how can I help you? It's such a nice quote. Like, if you think about it.

0:00:41 - (Tawni Nguyen): Hey, welcome back to fit and frugal lifestyle podcast, where we talk about money, relationships, finances and everything. So today I'm super excited to start this new series with you guys. I have my friend Matt here with me.

0:00:54 - (Matt Bontrager): Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

0:00:57 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. So tell me a little bit more about what you do and who you are, just in case they don't know who you are.

0:01:02 - (Matt Bontrager): Okay, so I'm a CPA. I mean, I'm going to give you the whole story. So I'm 31. I'm 31. I'm a CPA. And I like to throw into that I'm a young dad, although I feel like a veteran dad because I have three young kids. But it's been so much work because I have twins, so I have a four year old and I have twin two year old. So I'm just like in the thick of being in this dad mode and raising young kids and also trying to run a business. So as a CPA, I run a CPA firm of about 20 people.

0:01:31 - (Matt Bontrager): We do tax work, accounting work and all that. So we can kind of get into that. But yeah, we're all virtual, so that's nice. But, yeah, so that's what consumes up all of my time now.

0:01:39 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. So how do you balance all of that? Because I hear the toddler age is when you have pretty much teenagers in a little baby's body.

0:01:45 - (Matt Bontrager): Yes. I like to consider myself a floater when it comes to work. So I feel like some people are very much, I'm going to sit down at 09:00 or go to an office at 09:00, work for 8 hours, leave at four or five. I can't do that now with kids. So we'll wake up, we get the kids ready, we go to school, we bring them back. And then I usually sit around at the computer for, like, hard three to 4 hours, maybe have lunch, do some more phone calls. And then I have to get my kids at 03:00 is when I start picking them up.

0:02:15 - (Matt Bontrager): So it's like most people, you get a day until at least four or five before maybe you wind off of work. So I go pick up my kids at around three, and then I get back to work and I'm floating on my laptop at the kitchen island, or I'm on my phone. So again, I consider myself very stop and go throughout the day and working a lot on my phone and a laptop versus being, like, heads down for 8 hours straight.

0:02:35 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. Do you feel like after having kids, that shifted your productivity and your workload a little bit?

0:02:41 - (Matt Bontrager): I think so. For sure. I think having kids made me realize how much more efficient you have to be with your time. So before, I would think in 15 minutes, you can't really get much done. But it was because really a lack of focus would have, like, what I've told myself. And I feel like, I don't know if I have pure add, but I'm a squirrel at times. I just got a lot of stuff that I'm focusing on. And so what I've realized now is if you sit down for a strict, like, five to 15 minutes, you can get a lot done.

0:03:07 - (Matt Bontrager): You can get through 20 emails or get through two little small tasks. And so having kids has made me think a lot about how I spend my time. So if I only do have 2 hours at the computer, I got to be really legit with it.

0:03:19 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. It's more about being intentional with that time block too, because I do like the fact that you said you're a squirrel. And sometimes I feel like I'm like a squirrel on cocaine. My brain wants to do, like, 18 things. I can totally multitask. I open 98 tap. I'm like, fuck, I'm not doing any of them. People are like, oh, but multitasking is good because that's what you want to put on resumes. I'm like, no, multitasking is actually not good. It's the least efficient way you can go about your time because you're diluting all of your focus. Like you said, you just pick one thing, do it really well, even for like, half an hour.

0:03:52 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, you can just bang it out one task, get to the next task.

0:03:55 - (Matt Bontrager): That's a good thing that you said, too, is diluting the time because that's exactly what it is. It's like if you just gave all of your attention to that one task for the next ten to 15 minutes, you'd get through it. And that's one thing I've tried to tell myself lately, too, is emails. I'm in a business where we do a lot of emailing, and emails are just the complete bane of my existence. So I try to get to a zero inbox every day.

0:04:14 - (Matt Bontrager): But part of this new email system that I do is if you look at an email and you feel like you can reply in two minutes or less, just do it now. Yeah, and I've been doing that and it's working really well. And what I've realized is, again, even in two minutes, you can get a lot done. My brain would read, start to read an email and it would seem a little bit complex and be like, I'll do that later. It's just going to take me 1520 minutes.

0:04:32 - (Matt Bontrager): And so just focusing, making myself focus, this for at least two minutes has been really productive. So I just feel like, as we go on in this society and with the Internet and these different apps and stuff like that, of where you can spend your time, time just gets more and more scarce.

0:04:45 - (Tawni Nguyen): You feel like, I think I did pick up a little bit of an ADHD trait when you said, like, oh, this looks too much, because the brain does get a little bit overwhelmed. So I kind of tell people, I'm like, hey, if you really want me to answer, you break it up into smaller sentences. Because if you give me a paragraph and I look at it, I'm like, like, not today. Saying, maybe in the next hour. And you put your phone down and it's been like 18 years, I'm like, I'm so sorry I didn't get back to you.

0:05:08 - (Matt Bontrager): Yeah, I agree. Yeah, that's funny. And that's what gets stuff, too. I feel like with a team now and every day, I feel like there's just 10, 20, 30 different communication channels coming into me. So I feel like I'm on this constant journey of trying to structure my day better and find more efficiencies with time and stuff.

0:05:25 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah.

0:05:25 - (Matt Bontrager): Because I feel like kid now, my friends with no kids, I'm always like, what do you do with all your free time? You have so much yesterday, right? So my friend calls me to play pickleball, and I'm just like, dude, I can't because of this, this, this. And he's like, do you even remember what it was like to not have kids? And I'm like, yeah, I do. And it's just like, what do you do with all your time? I don't even know.

0:05:42 - (Tawni Nguyen): You have the honor of doing what you guys can't do, do whatever with your time.

0:05:46 - (Matt Bontrager): I know.

0:05:47 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. I'm going to value and cherish that time.

0:05:50 - (Matt Bontrager): You should.

0:05:51 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. So with being a CPS, you deal with a lot of clients portfolios, from the super wealthy, the rich, to the average american, right?

0:06:01 - (Matt Bontrager): Yeah.

0:06:01 - (Tawni Nguyen): What do you see as a streamline? Like, what are their average spending habits? Like in between someone that makes one hundred k a year versus someone that brings in three, four, $5 million a.

0:06:11 - (Matt Bontrager): Year spending habits between the average and the high net worth. Or wealthy people, I would say, is they focus on buying assets. Most people say that, for example, buying, like a car. Yes. That is a liability. Right. That's something that you're likely going to have a monthly payment for. You buying a $20,000 car is likely not going to be worth 25,000 in a couple of years. They don't appreciate in value.

0:06:37 - (Matt Bontrager): So I feel like what wealthy people mainly spend their money on is one they'll reinvest it into like a business that they own, or this is where, I mean, like, they'll buy assets with it, they'll buy rental properties with it, they'll buy stocks with it, things like that. They'll buy assets that appreciate or can pay them as time goes on. And I think that they're very smart on watching their overhead. They don't overspend. I think a lot of people now, if I make $50,000 a year and I have a $20,000 credit card limit, they'll spend not only the 40 that they take home on their house, their car, their groceries, but they're also using a $20,000 credit card to rack up money in charges as well. And so that ends up getting them in hot water. They're spending everything that they make and they're spending what's on their credit card.

0:07:23 - (Matt Bontrager): So I think budgeting is honestly the biggest thing that the average american, or like average people don't do. They don't pay attention to where their money goes. And as a CPA, that's something that we focus a lot of time on because we do people's tax returns, we do people's accounting. And so I think that's the biggest differentiating factor. They buy assets and they know where their money is going. Most people don't understand or even know where their money is going.

0:07:47 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, I really like that you brought that up. Because every time you hear a budget, you think it's like super unsexy or whatever. But I'm like, no, you're just telling your money what to do versus trying to figure out at the end of the month, like, fuck, happened to like ten, twenty K? And sometimes you have to go back and like, what did I do on this night that cost me like $2,000.

0:08:05 - (Matt Bontrager): Exactly.

0:08:06 - (Tawni Nguyen): And when you brought up the fact that they're buying assets and they're buying, obviously, real estate or businesses, do you see a trend in consumerism that the average American are spending more in? Are they going out more? Are they taking eating out restaurants? What exactly do you think that they're spending money on? Because money on credit card is so arbitrary, right? It's just a number on a screen.

0:08:30 - (Tawni Nguyen): I don't think people have a sense of attachment to that because they think it's free money. Because we weren't really taught financial literacy. Because I know in my twenty s I didn't have a credit card, so I was like 23 years old.

0:08:40 - (Matt Bontrager): Good.

0:08:41 - (Tawni Nguyen): I've always been a cash girl. I actually didn't know where my money was going either, because it was cash. It disappeared like thin air. But yeah. What do you think that habit is like that? Do you think someone can course correct into financial literacy later on in life if they've been ingrained that high consumption lifestyle?

0:08:59 - (Matt Bontrager): I think they can. And I think that's what would pull somebody out of that. That's a great word for it, high consumption. I think something that would pull someone out of that is budgeting. When people sit down and really see where their money goes, it's very eye opening for them because they have no clue. They're spending $6 a day at Starbucks, they're spending $40 a night on dinner. They're spending $125 on clothes every week.

0:09:24 - (Matt Bontrager): And if you multiply that, okay, so you're spending five hundred and fifty dollars to six hundred dollars a month on clothes. That's a lot of clothes. You're spending, what, $800 a month on eating out. What would that look like if I were to kind of make some food at home? So I feel like what does help them course correct is the tracking of their money. And you're right, it's not sexy. But what's crazy is once people do it, I feel like they're really in tune with it. And they like that they did it. It's like going to the gym.

0:09:50 - (Matt Bontrager): I'm still bad at going to the gym, but it's like, you've never regretted going to the gym after you went to the gym.

0:09:56 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah.

0:09:56 - (Matt Bontrager): So it's the same thing as with your money. Once you sit down and are real with yourself and real with your money, and you have an understanding of, hey, here's what I have. Here's what I'm making. Here's where it goes. I think people will be so much more better off, and they'll be much more like, whoa, this is really for what I just spent on clothes for the year, I could have almost had a down payment on something. Right. Or had this much money saved. And so until you sit down and have that hard conversation with yourself, I think that people will always be, like, the best way I could describe it, in this tidal wave of just being thrown around and they're not really riding the wave. They're in the wave.

0:10:31 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. Is there a ratio that you think not as a financial.

0:10:36 - (Matt Bontrager): Of where their money should go?

0:10:37 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. Of what people should be spending their money.

0:10:39 - (Matt Bontrager): I think people should be saving at least 20% of their money if they could, because then it allows you to go buy assets, invest it into the stock market, something that will grow. Go. I'm a huge proponent of real estate. That's my favorite thing. So I personally invest in real estate. My clients that I help from a CPA perspective all do real estate. So for me, it's like, hey, save that money and go get a down payment on a property that you can rent out.

0:11:03 - (Matt Bontrager): I'm not necessarily, hey, go buy this car, but, hey, build your cash up and buy assets with it. Which is, again, what you start to see some of the wealthier people do, or what I'm new to as well, for the last, what, four years, is starting a business. People should really look into starting a business. We went yesterday, and these kids in my neighborhood were holding, like, this little lemonade stand.

0:11:24 - (Matt Bontrager): So we go, I grab some dollar bills. It's me and my. There's five of us in my family. So we walk up and I'm talking to him, and it's actually my dentist, it's his son who's doing this, and we're talking to him, and I'm like, hey, what's his hard costs in this? Like, what did he pay for all these cups? And he's like, well, to go get them, the dad did, and he's like, we're $40 in on costs. They bought cups, they bought ice, and they bought these other things.

0:11:46 - (Matt Bontrager): And then we had probably got there an hour after it opened, and he was already up to, like, $85.

0:11:51 - (Tawni Nguyen): Wow.

0:11:51 - (Matt Bontrager): So I was like, oh, look at the margin there. He understood what he was. I guess he was watching shark tank a lot, and so that's what got.

0:11:56 - (Tawni Nguyen): Him into it, this margin.

0:11:57 - (Matt Bontrager): But he. Exactly.

0:11:58 - (Tawni Nguyen): His dad, his expenses for him.

0:12:01 - (Matt Bontrager): What was funny, though, he had his friend on the corner spinning a sign, and I was like, oh, what are you going to pay your sign spinner? He's not working for free. Like, your friends are here helping you. And so that was so cool, because now kids, and obviously at a young age, start to get a feel for, like, hey, this $80 that I just made, that's really not profit. I'm only taking on 40, and then I got to pay my guys. So it's like, back to the wealthy thing. I feel like people need to get an understanding of where their money is going. That's step one.

0:12:26 - (Matt Bontrager): Step two is start to invest it in assets that you can start to grow. And then if you're really trying to take the leap, because when it comes down to it, wealthy people, two things. Real estate or a business at some point, and start to grow a business. Running a business has been so fun. It's so challenging, but it's the most rewarding by far.

0:12:46 - (Tawni Nguyen): What's the biggest lessons you've learned about yourself since you started a business that you wish someone would have told you before you started the business?

0:12:54 - (Matt Bontrager): Yeah. Lessons that I've learned, honestly, this isn't even a good one. But this is, like, meaning it's not a good look on me, but this is what I've learned, that I'm a very big people person. I feel like I got that from my mom. So it's like, you can put me in any room and I'll talk with somebody and I'll be okay. But what I'm not that good at doing is being clear with a team of employees. Hey, I need this done.

0:13:18 - (Matt Bontrager): I'm more so, like, hey, if you.

0:13:20 - (Tawni Nguyen): Get a chance, can you do this.

0:13:21 - (Matt Bontrager): By, like, next Friday? If it's not an inconvenience to you? You need a leader who is nice and kind, which is. I feel like that I am. I'm nice, I'm kind, I'm relatable, and I'm candid. But the problem that I have is, like, being stern and direct and clear.

0:13:35 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah.

0:13:36 - (Matt Bontrager): So I feel like now I'm on this journey of leadership. Like, we almost have 20 people at the firm. And so that's what now I'm in the thick of learning is, like, how to be an effective leader. And leading a team that I've realized is the hardest part of business. The easy part is like, hey, I spent $40 on the supplies. I made 80. I know what I need to break even.

0:13:53 - (Tawni Nguyen): You're good at numbers. Yeah.

0:13:55 - (Matt Bontrager): The numbers part.

0:13:56 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, because there's a lot of things that you learn along the way in the difference between managing someone because people are emotional creatures and leadership is, how do you get them driven to where they want to do the productivity themselves versus you micromanaging them to pretty much babysitting them for the tasks that they set to do anyways that they're getting paid for. So that's something that I also learned, is that, wow, I suck at constructive criticism when I started, because I'm hearing a little bit of, like, a people pleasing tendency. It's like, can you just do this for me?

0:14:28 - (Tawni Nguyen): And I think I'm hearing that. I really like the lemonade story is because it's kind of teaching young kids at a young age, entrepreneurship is something that should be open and exposed to them, not because they need money to buy them things and spend it on things, but, like, the intrinsic value that they actually have to work for the money versus just be cute and then daddy will give you $20. And I think that's how a lot of us was raised back. It's either you have no money or you got to do something, which is kind of like seeking approval from your parents or kissing ass for $20.

0:15:00 - (Matt Bontrager): True.

0:15:01 - (Tawni Nguyen): When you grow up to be that kind of adult.

0:15:03 - (Matt Bontrager): Yeah.

0:15:05 - (Tawni Nguyen): Okay. So on social media, there's a couple videos that people have sent me about one, writing down your dogs and your kids into your taxes because they're like, did you know you could write your dogs off as a guard dog on taxes for your business?

0:15:20 - (Matt Bontrager): That is true.

0:15:21 - (Tawni Nguyen): That's true. Right.

0:15:21 - (Matt Bontrager): So the angle that people are taking with that is, in the event you work from home and your dog is at home, obviously you can write off some of the cost to groom the dog and feed the dog. If that dog is acting as your maybe work home guard dog, what if.

0:15:35 - (Tawni Nguyen): It'S an emotional support dog?

0:15:38 - (Matt Bontrager): Emotional support. I wouldn't go as aggressive as far as the write off goes, but you could have a play there for sure if it's somehow tied into the business purpose of your business.

0:15:48 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah.

0:15:49 - (Matt Bontrager): Or right from the other aspect, which is how people do it with their kids. If their kids are advertising within their business or somehow working within their business, you can pay those off or write. You can write those off on it, like, as expenses. Yes.

0:16:00 - (Tawni Nguyen): So how do you plan to put your kids into your business right now?

0:16:04 - (Matt Bontrager): My kids are so young that they really have no use. My older four year old would probably help me do mailers. So like letters and stuff. We do a lot of paper pushing in the CPA for practice, or it would have to be what most people do, some sort of advertising. So if I wanted to put my kids in videos with me and talk about tax planning or something like that, that could help. Usually videos and content are the number one way people are integrating their kids.

0:16:25 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. And what are the tax write offs like for content creator? Because we're entering a space to where content is king and everyone wants to create, everyone wants to provide value. But what does that look like on the financial stance? Because as you know, making content costs a lot of money.

0:16:39 - (Matt Bontrager): Oh, yeah.

0:16:40 - (Tawni Nguyen): So how do we integrate that into a business model or as just a person that's creating content, how do you make that work?

0:16:46 - (Matt Bontrager): So content has really opened up the doors here for people to take a lot of expenses. And what I mean by that, a lot of different types of expenses. The best example I have is someone came to us because they went to a prior CPA and the CPA wouldn't let him write off his roof rack on his tacoma. And little did that old CPA know that this tacoma was used, as in this guy's YouTube channel, and they did off roading and they went out camping and it was in a lot of the content.

0:17:12 - (Matt Bontrager): He had actually even shown in the video how to, I guess, install this roof rack and all that stuff. So to an older accountant, that makes sense that like, hey, this is a roof rack for a car. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to basically allow you to write it off. But in our business, we're familiar with a lot of content creators. We do content creation ourself. And so when it comes down to writing something off, it has to be ordinary and necessary.

0:17:34 - (Matt Bontrager): So one, is ordinary. Would someone else spend that similar expense or spend that money on something similar in that business? Two, is it necessary for the business, which in that case, I would say it is necessary to produce content around this roof rack. If I don't write it, I need a roof rack. Obviously, I would need to buy this roof rack. But as far as content creation as a whole, I like to consider it as like, you get to really write off certain lifestyle expenses. So, for example, if you're trying to turn a trip into a vlog and a big content series around it and buy certain things to feature in the videos.

0:18:06 - (Matt Bontrager): You're obviously going to get some of that as this personal benefit because you're there living the experience, but you're also there on work. It's the same way now that I have a nice home office in my house, but I mainly use it for work and I got to write it off. So that's, I think what allowed content creators to do is to find a way to integrate their work into their lifestyle. And now take some of those as expenses.

0:18:28 - (Matt Bontrager): But not only that, obviously, all the cameras and all the equipment and softwares and computers and lights and all that that they buy, they definitely need to make sure that they're writing that stuff off.

0:18:37 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, I think that's the part that I'm still trying to understand where exactly the fine line is. Because before, I think people were just abusing all the meals and all of the people I traveled with to conferences, like every state, they're putting on like, bar tabs, our strip club tabs. They're putting thousands and thousands of dollars every single night of every conference. They're like, oh, it's okay, it's a write off. Oh, it's okay, it's a write off. I'm like, at what point is this almost illegal? Coming from a person that never really had a business until later in my 20s, that I didn't understand taxes. I didn't know that I could have written so much off.

0:19:08 - (Matt Bontrager): What? So you were saying. Didn't really know that you could write this stuff off as you were starting a business, but you were seeing other people do it?

0:19:14 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah.

0:19:14 - (Matt Bontrager): Okay.

0:19:14 - (Tawni Nguyen): So it kind of just blew my mind on the fine lines between reckless spending. I think I was recklessly spending in my 20s because I came from hospitality. It was just about making clients happy, making sure they're comfortable, and taking them to extravagant meals and all of these things that has to do with bookings and getting turnovers and just getting clients to like you pretty much. So they choose you.

0:19:41 - (Tawni Nguyen): Right. So I think a lot of that validation kind of came through reckless spending. And I just ingrained that within my lifestyle, too. Because if you're planning an event, it depends. Wedding can cost anywhere from 50. Some events I've done is quarter mil north.

0:19:54 - (Matt Bontrager): That's nuts.

0:19:55 - (Tawni Nguyen): Some of the larger events is like five hundred k per night that they're spending. So they want to be treated like kings and the red carpet and the whole thing just for like 6 hours. Right. And I think a lot of that kind of came with me into, I don't know, this business world. My first real estate conference, I'm like, oh, I still see the similarities in people spending recklessly. They're doing the same stuff, but now it's a write off.

0:20:20 - (Matt Bontrager): Yeah. I think the big dynamic there, too, is the position that you were likely in at the time when you're seeing the money spent or having to spend the money on yourself is this comes back to like, for example, we have a lot of clients who are mortgage brokers, and they make a w two, but they still have to spend money on gifts for their clients, an admin to help them with all the files that they're dealing with.

0:20:44 - (Matt Bontrager): The problem with that is they make a w two at their job and they have to spend all this other money on the side as part of their job, but they can't take any expenses because they are w two. So in your case, if you were a w two employee, but we're needing to still spend this money, that is something right there. That would be tough because you're in a position where you can't take a write off, but you still need to spend money because these people expect something of you and they want that level of service.

0:21:10 - (Matt Bontrager): Because my only other thought there is, if I am a business and I run something in hospitality, and I'm going to throw an event that I know will bring in a million bucks from there, it's really the back end math of, okay, well, sure, I'll whine and dine these people and buy the red carpets and all this other extravagant stuff, but at the end of the day, I have to make sure that I'm still in red, the black or the green to make money. Right. I don't want to obviously lose money on the event, which I think comes back to tracking money. So the problem would be, too, some of these people that are going to conferences blowing all this money, they're not really paying attention to, hey, what is it really going to bring me in at the end of the day? Like, for example, we're going to an event in Houston at the end of October.

0:21:49 - (Matt Bontrager): We're going to spend probably 12,000 on cost to be there, the flights out there, the hotel, the eating while we're there. I like to eat out pretty nice while I'm traveling. So it's just like knowing that it makes our break even point even higher for landing clients. So I think it comes back to of spending may seem reckless at times, but it's only reckless if you don't know where you're going and when to stop. Kind of thing, because if you know that you're going to make a million bucks, maybe you do need to spend upwards of six, 7800,000 because you're still going to net a couple of hundred grand.

0:22:18 - (Matt Bontrager): But if you're blowing all this money on these things at night and all these events and stuff, and then you're not really watching your top line, then it's like, oh, that gets you in trouble.

0:22:25 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. So let's just say if you're going to that conference and you know that you're going to spend 15k, is there like a certain Roi that you're already anticipating for something like that?

0:22:34 - (Matt Bontrager): I at least want to break even. I'm not even so much worried about the surplus. So, for example, if we're going out to this conference and we're going to spend 15 grand on the travel, the dining and the hotel and everything while we're there with my team, like, for example, I'm bringing a sales guy. I'm bringing three people total, including myself. So four I would want to, if it's going to cost me 15 grand, I would want to land 15 grand worth of work while I'm there. And then on the back end, I know more leads will trickle in that we can land later. So for me, it's more. So, hey, if I'm going to outlay 15 to go there, I'd like to make 15 while I'm there to make sure that I'm at least at a break even on that example.

0:23:09 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. I actually really like the breakdown of your business spending because it's very intentional. It's almost kind of like, it's not frugal because to a lot of people 15k, it's a lot of money. Right. Because they don't make that kind of money. But I think intentionally going there with a purpose in mind, too, kind of teaches you the relationship. Like, I can kind of see your value as a person, too, of how you spend, not just the fact that you're a CPA. Yeah, you're supposed to be good with money. Have you always grown up with that kind of relationship to money? Or has that changed since you got a career in being a CPA?

0:23:40 - (Matt Bontrager): Done a lot of that, too. Of like, hey, why am I so different now as I'm getting older? And I think I just want something completely different. I want to be so outlandishly rich. And it's like, some people don't like saying that, but I'm like, I don't care. That's my thing. I want to make a ton of money. I think I've always had an attention to detail, but as far as a relationship with money, it was always very scarce. So, like, oh, shit, you got to keep what you have kind of thing. But that was something that I learned the hard way in business was the first year of business.

0:24:05 - (Matt Bontrager): I did all the work myself, pretty much almost for the first year. And so hiring that first person was very scary for me, because now it was that monthly overhead that I had to now pay somebody. But I think being a CPA makes me a numbers guy, and then two. I just have a love for money. I like tracking it. I like seeing the flow of it. I like how to multiply it and all that. So business, it's just like, now it's sort of, like, encompassing everything that I do.

0:24:29 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, I think I've been hearing on certain podcasts how they talk about switching from scarcity to abundance. Mindset is you have to have developed and continue to work on an affirmation to positivity and to having money flow into your life instead of holding on to it. And you just have to surrender to receive more money. And a lot of people kind of get tied down to, I guess an identity of money is like, hey, I only make one hundred k a year. I only can do this. And it's very self limiting.

0:24:58 - (Tawni Nguyen): And how has that, is there a mindset shift that you go into creating money and opportunities for yourself?

0:25:05 - (Matt Bontrager): What has helped me? Okay, so I'm pretty open about this. My first year in business, we did 120,000 in gross. Our second year in business, we did 860. And our third year last year, we did 2.6 million. So the growth has been like that. Do I want to continue on that path? No, I would like to somewhat stabilize and get this working. That was very fast growth for a CPA firm. But seeing that has now kind of, like, punted this thought of like, oh, obviously there's an abundance out there. This is not a scarcity thing.

0:25:36 - (Matt Bontrager): If we wanted to do 6 million this year, we probably could. So I think what helps go against that thought of the scarcity mindset is that, like you said, you're open, and if you focus on the problems that you're solving for people, the money will flow. And I know people hate hearing that kind of shit is like, just listen to me, and then it's going to work itself out. But it's like, yo, that's true. Just follow the core principles of be good to people, help people focus on the problem, pay attention to what they need this quote lately that I've been thinking of, which is so dumb, but it's so easy. It's like, how can I help you? Is such a nice quote. Like, if you think about it, think about when you walk into Lowe's one, it's hard to find somebody in there. So it's like, ideal scenario is someone in an apron walks up to you and says, how can I help you?

0:26:20 - (Matt Bontrager): It's no different from a business perspective. And that's what will bring money if you're a w two role, though, because somebody might be watching this thinking like, well, I don't run a business, so how am I supposed to do this? Well, I have employees. The best way to look better and make more money and to get more responsibility would be somebody coming to their boss or their leader and being like, how can I help you?

0:26:39 - (Matt Bontrager): How can I further develop what we're doing here? And so I think no matter what situation you're in, the more you can help, the more value you can provide, the more money will come for sure.

0:26:49 - (Tawni Nguyen): I think that's what I'm hearing a lot, too. Just be of value, be of service. And it always circulates around that. The five love languages is like, be of service to others. A lot of times, what I learned lately, it's that sometimes you want to, like, let's just say your love language is something different. You only know how to give, but a lot of people cannot receive because they receive love in a different language than you are able to speak.

0:27:14 - (Tawni Nguyen): And that applies to every business relationship I've had. Personal relationships, friendships, and with partnerships and relationships, you know, that's hard because we're in such a highly value driven, relationship based business to where you really have to honor where people are at, too, because there's a lot of people that can't receive help even if they need it. They just kind of need that space. Right.

0:27:36 - (Tawni Nguyen): And moving into money and relationship and mindset, it's like, what? Kind of, like, when you have your kids now that it's taken up most of your time, how do you find that balance? And how do you integrate that relationship with your kids into your life? And how do you build an intentional lifestyle around that so that you and your family and I grew up with parents that were never there. They worked a lot. Right.

0:28:02 - (Tawni Nguyen): Also, like, immigrant mom, single mom, never saw my mom. So that I don't want to repeat that generational pattern to the kids that I'm going to have. So what kind of advice are, like, now that you're a dad of three, how do you want to move forward with the decisions that you make so that your kids can feel included in your life?

0:28:23 - (Matt Bontrager): I think time is a big one. Like you had just mentioned, you didn't get to spend a lot of time with your parents. I feel like parents now, they consider spending time with their kids is like parents are sitting there watching tv and the kids are on an iPad. That shit is not spending time with your kids. Spending time with your kids is like having conversation with them, playing with them, playing outside with them, going on a bike ride with them. That, to me, is like, it's focus time. Like, you're focusing on your kids.

0:28:49 - (Matt Bontrager): So I feel like keeping a balance of that every day. Not just like, obviously you have busy spurts of work where it's like, hey, certain days you're only going to get to hang with your kids maybe an hour or two before they go to bed and after them being at school and all that. But I don't know. I think setting a good example for them, too. And also now running a business, I think puts a lot of pressure on me to perform, to take care of my kids.

0:29:10 - (Matt Bontrager): My kid goes to private school, and that shit is not cheap. And so talking through that with my wife is like, if you wanted to maintain doing that, now there's this level of, like, you have to make so much money per year to do that. And then there's always that thought of like, well, I'm going to start here. And what happens if you had to take him out of that and go put him maybe in a public school or something? I went to public school, so I don't know.

0:29:31 - (Matt Bontrager): I feel like to do that and to be a good dad, to be, like, a good business person, to be a good spouse. Like, the love language thing, I love that you brought up me and my wife do that. It's funny now seeing that after having kids, love languages have changed. Like, my wife's love language now is act of service. Like, doing something for her out of doing the dishes or doing something that she otherwise would have to do. She's like, yeah, do that for me. That's what I want now, because with the kids, it's so.

0:29:53 - (Matt Bontrager): But I feel like all of that is hard to manage, and all of it is ever so changing that it's going to take focus to pay attention to it. I love Ty Lopez and how he broke down. Life was like health, wealth, love, happiness. I'm like, those are good pillars. Those are, like, good. Sort of like, all right, if you're lagging in one area, like in my health. And maybe I've been focusing on my business, on the wealth side, maybe it's like, okay, this is somewhat stabilized now. Now I'm going to take a vacation and go work out or go travel with my family.

0:30:21 - (Matt Bontrager): So monitoring those throughout your life with focus and intention is, I think, the real answer. Because I feel like you'll never get this perfect balance to where you're always in harmony. Some of those will always be higher operating and some of them will be lacking.

0:30:32 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. I really like that you brought up the love language, like kind of change with you and your wife, too. We call that the mental load.

0:30:38 - (Matt Bontrager): Yeah.

0:30:39 - (Tawni Nguyen): Just because women tend to remember more of the really intricate little details on tasks and chores that has to be done over time, I think it builds a lot of resentment into the relationship. If men are, why don't you just ask? But I think right there, I think you got the key. It's that you should be in service without us having to.

0:30:59 - (Matt Bontrager): Yes. Not provoking the answer.

0:31:00 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. As a gender stereotypical role of, like, a dual income household, it's not just like the man provides and the man brings home the money or whatever, like the old school traditional thing. But now if the woman has to do it, we have three shifts now. It's like the kids, the house and the job. Right? So where is the time? And then I feel like there's a lot of women that goes around like, oh, I'm a boss biz.

0:31:22 - (Tawni Nguyen): I'm a successful entrepreneur. And I'm like, yeah, because you don't have to be home with the kids. There's nothing wrong with being a housewife. There's so many tasks that are unpaid that adds up to a whole skill.

0:31:34 - (Matt Bontrager): Stack that, oh, yeah.

0:31:35 - (Tawni Nguyen): Like, if you were to switch roles with your wife and had to be home all day, you're like.

0:31:40 - (Matt Bontrager): She calls it the invisible workload. And it's funny now my wife's thing is like, she's like, I identify as a dad dad today, which is like her digging. I'm not doing anything. I'm just, like, laying around. And that's what it is. It's such a balance. And the more I'm on this leadership journey of dealing with people, I'm like, being clear with people is so important. Like, even with your spouse, it's funny. We were talking with a friend last night, me and her, we're facetiming them. They're going through a divorce.

0:32:08 - (Matt Bontrager): And at the end of it, we're just talking because me and my wife, I like to say, have a very. I'm very loud and outlandish. Like, I'll say some shit that sounds when people meet me, you either hate me or not love me, but you're like, you either hate me or you're like, all right, this guy's cool. But I feel like I'm trying to be honest and candid with people. And so it's funny that me and my wife, people will think that we're, like, scream matching. We're just, like, not. We're just bantering and we're arguing and we're bickering versus some people are like, oh, my gosh. They think that's maybe, like, going at each other's throats. And so that's just our way of communicating. It's very clear. If we're not happy about something, we're saying it, and it's just, like, out there versus harboring it, like you said, and then it becomes some sort of resentment.

0:32:47 - (Matt Bontrager): And I feel like that trickles down in everybody's life. Like, if you're clear with your kids and you're trying to be good with them and you're trying to hang with them, if it's your spouse, if it's your boss. So I try to trace everything back to, like, it will always move. It's always going to require your focus to see what's lacking. And then just being clear and candid with people is, I find the best way to do it.

0:33:05 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah. And I like that you brought it up, because that's just authenticity.

0:33:08 - (Matt Bontrager): Yeah. It's a good way to say it a lot, right? Yeah.

0:33:11 - (Tawni Nguyen): What is this word? What is this word? Like yourself, it's really hard, but a lot of people is just so uptight, and they're so conditioned to be this version that's only curated for that social event or that performance in front of others that they cannot crack a joke, they can't breathe, they can't really be themselves. They can't just let loose and just have conversations to where you feel like it's a genuine connection, I think, with social media, too, because a lot of people can turn on the camera and do a talking head and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like a robot. But in person, I'm like, this is not the same person that shows up online. And it's really hard to kind of identify or blend the two of the online Persona versus the human.

0:33:50 - (Tawni Nguyen): And that's kind of like the direction that we're going. With AI already writing everything for you, that everyone, now that I'm reading all of this stuff. AI is amazing. Don't get me wrong. A lot of good stuff, but after a while, I'm like, I can't hear the voice anymore. Because you want to connect to that. You want to feel like it's a real person. Yeah, it's a brand, after all. But you want to feel like this guy's funny. Oh, this guy's a dick, but I like him. Like you said, right?

0:34:13 - (Tawni Nguyen): If we're going to be assholes, you might as well be a genuine asshole. But that really is there for people and actually truly cares about people. Okay?

0:34:20 - (Matt Bontrager): So, yes, I love that. And here's what I find almost scary to that. They say that our generation is likely the last one to where we feel. They feel, I guess the people above that are older than us, that we're the last generation that can communicate effectively with people online and in person. Some of the kids I see nowadays that are leaving school, I'm like, dude, no shot. This is hard to sit here in front of cameras and talk. But I'm also like, this is also proof that I would want my kids to be able to do this, to sit here and have a comfortable conversation, to be in front of somebody, read someone's not scripted, read someone's body language. Is this getting awkward? Is it going, like, most kids now would crumble under that. And that is terrifying to me because it's like my first job was working at Smith's, bagging groceries, talking with people, and it's like, going to get carts from the lot and all that.

0:35:09 - (Matt Bontrager): And now I'm like, with people getting desk jobs and it's not bad, but I feel like we're losing that person, that human to human contact. And I'm like, I'm a big, like, my type of motivation is like, winner, loser. Like, come on, grind it out. And so I'm just like, don't be a loser. Be out there. Talk to people. Don't be worried to, I don't know, be silly or say something that you feel like you slipped up on or something. Because I feel like that's natural and that's progress.

0:35:34 - (Matt Bontrager): But if you're more of this introverted, you don't want to talk to people and you're just not even trying, then I'm like, that scares me because I feel like those who will really succeed are those that can communicate effectively in person and online, right. And always have that personal skill. That's why I think back to, like, I was poor growing up, single mom, love my mom. But there's things that I got from my mom that I love, which are my candor.

0:35:58 - (Matt Bontrager): Like all of my people skills. My mom is very much a people person, but my mom's not a money person. Right? Like, that was. Now where I'm changing the gap, I'm going to focus on money. I'm going to focus on structure and building a business and the logistics of that. But when it comes to I need clients to love me, I'm going to pull out my mom from that because I know that she was the people person. I don't know. I feel like, again, people just need to worry about being well rounded, being.

0:36:24 - (Matt Bontrager): Talking to people while also being book smart is how I look at it. Do your studies, get in the workforce and learn and learn from people who are doing what you want to do. But I'm like, focus on being a good person. Go out there. Like, my wife had to go into the office. She works at home now. She's a very good people person, too. We compete about it. We're just like, almost, who's better? But my wife is very direct.

0:36:46 - (Matt Bontrager): So funny enough, my wife was my boss. That's how I met her. And the first day I met her, I'm just like, whoa, you're rude. Because it's like, she's so firm in the work. She's a firm woman in the workplace. I always make fun of her. Like, when she shook my hand, it hurt because she's very firm. And so I'm like, sometimes I think she's being rude, but I'm like, most people don't, though. She's just very direct. She's not one of these, like, if.

0:37:05 - (Tawni Nguyen): You have a chance, can you do this?

0:37:07 - (Matt Bontrager): She's just like, can you have this to me by Tuesday at 09:00 a.m. And I'm just like, oh, my gosh, you're, like, hot. I don't know. For me, it's just like with having kids and running a business, I don't even know where we were on this. But being good as a people person and putting yourself out there and trying to get in uncomfortable situations, but also now learning from people making good decisions, thoughtful, focused decisions.

0:37:34 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, no, it's enlightening to hear that because there's a lot of books out there. Obviously, we're in real estate and we want to profit first. Profit this. But there's a lot of people that kind of go against that, and it's like, hey, people first. Because profit will come, right? Because there's a way to build holistic wealth that doesn't really demonize or walk all over people or become that person.

0:37:52 - (Tawni Nguyen): And what I'm hearing from your wife is that it's actually amazing because assertive women are firm and friendly. But if you're too nice and you're flirting with everyone, and if you're too firm, you're a bitch and walk right over really hard. Right. So I really like that you can pick that out as one of the traits, obviously, now that you're married. But it's, a lot of women can't even develop that skill is because we're so ingrained to be people pleasers and to be submissive and to just be an office, whatever, for sure.

0:38:22 - (Matt Bontrager): Like a secretary, admin or. Yeah, exactly.

0:38:24 - (Tawni Nguyen): There's nothing wrong with that. But they never step out of that. And then it's just like a disparity between that and like a boss bitch shoe wear to domineering to this. And it's just really hard to find a balance in a man's world because that's, after all, what we play in.

0:38:38 - (Matt Bontrager): Yeah, my wife says this, so it's funny. The guy we were facetiming last night was an old boss of ours, so we both worked for him, and we're obviously still friends. But my wife got a review from him one time as, like, just a one on one manager talk. And he was like, man, sarah, I think you're too aggressive. And she was like, fuck that. You would never say that if I was a man. But the only reason you're saying that is because I'm a woman in the workplace. And so I come off bitchy. And he ate his words. It was so funny because then when you start to look at the counterparts in the department of the other men that are in those positions, they're the same way. Bossy and they're mean. So it's just like, she called him out on it. And another thing, too, is she always was like, oh, well, women feel underpaid. She was like, but it's because they don't speak up.

0:39:19 - (Matt Bontrager): And it's to that point of where you're saying maybe they're not so confident in their skill set to say, hey, you're underpaying me compared to this person. And so, yeah, I feel like that's what it takes, though. It takes that people person the confidence. And that's another weird thing that I feel like people throw around a lot is confidence. But I don't know, people should definitely. The more you talk to people and become confident in situations, then I feel like that builds. It's a skill, and, like, a muscle that you have to work.

0:39:44 - (Matt Bontrager): And that's my worry now is with my kids and seeing other kids now, they don't care to try to break through that. They're so introverted. It just kills me. When I'm out to dinner and I see a kid on an iPad at a restaurant, I'm just like, I'm going to pick it up and throw it away.

0:40:00 - (Tawni Nguyen): It hurts my feelings because I grew up in a third world country playing with rocks and mud and climbing trees and, like, falling off trees.

0:40:06 - (Matt Bontrager): And you're at dinner and you can't talk with your kid. You're just letting them sit there. And then the headphone thing, don't even get me started on that. They put, like, headphones on them.

0:40:13 - (Tawni Nguyen): Meltdowns and tantrums because you're taking away their game or.

0:40:17 - (Matt Bontrager): Oh, it drives me nuts, Jimmy.

0:40:19 - (Tawni Nguyen): And they're like. They're freaking out. And I'm just like, oh, my God, what happened to this society? I don't even have kids yet, and I'm kind of afraid to wait till.

0:40:26 - (Matt Bontrager): That kid is 18. And you try to sit, and again, this is different. You have cameras and this kind of stuff. But I'm also like, could they sit here and have a conversation? Oh, they would crumble. They would just melt in their chair. They wouldn't even know what to say. And I'm just like, that's so bad. People got to get people people again and learn how to talk with people and interact and communicate. And I feel like that. And to the money and business side, that's who will make money. So people are so scared that AI is going to come in now.

0:40:50 - (Matt Bontrager): AI is going to come in, and it's going to be useful to people like me and you who run a business. You already just said it. You're utilizing AI for the content stuff. We utilize AI on the tax research side. The people who utilize it but still have the people component are who are going to win. You can't just rely on this to do all of your dirty work.

0:41:07 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, I love that winner mentality that you have because it's still soft. It's very people, it's very leadership rolesque. It's not like toxic masculinity or whatever that other word is. Is there any last philosophy you want to leave here with today on.

0:41:22 - (Matt Bontrager): What would be my last? Okay, we're going to go the money route first because this is like, no matter what side of money that I talk about, so to set a clear example, I strategize in taxes. So if somebody came to me and they make a lot of money, I'm going to help them pay as little tax as possible. And my tip here is that a lot of people that want to do that, they're already making money in their business, and now they're like, hey, I got to focus on saving some of my money from taxes.

0:41:49 - (Matt Bontrager): The number one reason that they can't is because they don't do their bookkeeping, which is like this tracking of money, where their money goes. So that's honestly my biggest takeaway here, is that if you're somebody watching this and you are a w two employee, pay attention to where your money goes. Track it for a week, put it in a spreadsheet, make ten categories, food, clothing, fun, entertainment, whatever, and just see where it goes. And just sit down with yourself for 30 minutes focused. Right.

0:42:16 - (Matt Bontrager): And don't try to scamp out of it after five minutes and just sit there and look at it for 30 minutes. I feel like people would be so much better off. And then, I don't know, my overarching would be like, hey, focus on all areas, but then take the time and understand that something will slack at times and just be sure that you're focusing on it to bring it back. So, like, for example, this last month and this next month, I will be working a lot.

0:42:42 - (Matt Bontrager): My time with my kids will fall, my family time will fall, my fun time will fall, and my work time will go way up. But then on the back end, I'm going to take time and see, hey, where am I lacking? And now focus my areas or focus my time in other area. So that's kind of my last bit. But I don't know. Be a people person and take your time and be focused is probably my last thing. Yeah.

0:43:01 - (Tawni Nguyen): I just want to acknowledge you for being here. So thank you for your time.

0:43:04 - (Matt Bontrager): Oh, thank you. This is awesome.

0:43:05 - (Tawni Nguyen): I know. I won't bother you until tax season. Until tax season.

0:43:10 - (Matt Bontrager): I know it's a. Yeah. Cool.

0:43:12 - (Tawni Nguyen): So thanks, Matt.

0:43:13 - (Matt Bontrager): Thank you. Love it.

0:43:14 - (Tawni Nguyen): Thanks for tuning into fit and frugal. Hopefully you got some valuable insights from Matt today. You can connect with him on IG.

0:43:19 - (Matt Bontrager): IG Instagram. Yep. At Matt bondrager.

0:43:22 - (Tawni Nguyen): Cool. And then you can find me on IG at Tawnisaurus. Stay fit. Stay frugal. Peace.