Mike Kim's Unique Approach to an Authentic Life & Marketing

How do we truly connect in a world of social media personas and parasocial relationships?

I'm thrilled to have a conversation with Mike Kim today, a marketing maestro who weaves authenticity into every strand of his personal brand.

Mike isn't just about brand building; he's about crafting narratives that resonate deeply with audiences.

In our candid chat, we explore Mike's life as a frequent traveler, diving into the real, human stories behind those hotel stays. Mike's experiences bring a unique perspective on the challenges and comforts of a nomadic lifestyle, shared with his signature wit and genuine honesty.

As a renowned marketing strategist, speaker, author, and consultant, Mike brings a treasure trove of insights from his journey in personal branding and business growth. He talks about finding the sweet spot between professional excellence and personal authenticity, highlighting the importance of being true to oneself in all aspects of life.

Mike's approach to business is all about impact, not just sales. He encourages others to tap into their unique stories and strengths, creating brands that not only attract attention but also make a lasting impact.

Our conversation takes a deep dive into the complexities of relationships, especially dealing with narcissism. We discuss the critical roles of self-love and acceptance, which are key to forming healthy, fulfilling connections.

This episode is for anyone looking for a good dose of humor, and some real talk on life, love, and authenticity.

Key Takeaways:
Life is not about balance, but about harmony. It's about giving appropriate attention to the appropriate things at the appropriate times.
Building a brand or business on social media requires authenticity and the ability to build a campfire around what you share.
It's important to have a range of emotions and experiences in your content to connect with your audience on a deeper level.
Social media is a parasocial relationship, and it's important to remember that it's not a complete representation of someone's life.
Self-love and self-acceptance are crucial for living a fulfilling life and building healthy relationships.

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Transcript

[TRANSCRIPT]

0:00:00 - (Mike Kim): Your life. I'm just going to live mine. If there are aspects of it that you can pull from. Great. Chew the meat, spit out the bones. Right. But I'm going to post range is to be able to be themselves and be loved and accepted for being themselves. That's ultimately what I believe all human beings want. Yeah, for this person, you don't even know that well, only gone on a few dates in trying to act a certain way. And also where the inauthenticity starts to creep in.

0:00:32 - (Tawni Nguyen): Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Fit and Frugal podcast. I am your host, Tawni Nguyen. You can find me on IG at Tawnisaurus. So today, I'm super excited. We just crossed our 21st episode milestone. And with me now, I have Mike Kim, hilarious friend I just met through our friend Kevin. Welcome to the casting Couch 21.

0:00:51 - (Mike Kim): That means I'm legal. I'm making the show legal. Hell, yeah. All right. Legalizing. Yeah. I'm honored to be here. Let's go.

0:01:01 - (Tawni Nguyen): You know what was really funny is that you were talking about people think that it's all fancy, that you're traveling and doing all these gigs, that you've been on the road for two weeks now, and Vegas is your third stop, and today is your third hotel destination, just in Vegas alone. And what was really hilarious is you're like, you know, I was trying to do my laundry, and I was walking on the sidewalk, and my bag of laundry.

0:01:24 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, I popped the bag, so all of my stuff flew over the sidewalk. Probably touched some needles that were on the ground, but I got them into the wash anyway. I travel light. I'm afraid of, I guess, commitment or something. Right? Like, bringing a lot of luggage or, like, going through.

0:01:41 - (Tawni Nguyen): Your therapist knows about that, right?

0:01:43 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. I thought your travel tendencies say a lot about who you are. I guess so, yeah, I just been on the road a lot last four weeks. I've been on the road for three of them. But I don't have anyone to blame. It's my fault, but it's also my doing. I love it. I love it. But, yeah, people see all the highlights on Instagram and all the stuff on social media and. Sounds really cool, but you got to do laundry. Can't pack two weeks of laundry in a carry on, so you got to do it sometime, right?

0:02:14 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, eventually. I did talk to one of my friend Matt. He said he's like, he wants to get to a financially secure level to where, if he travels, he just hops on a plane. He goes to wherever destination he lands, buys all new stuff and then just leaves and then just donate everything that he bought for himself during that trip.

0:02:34 - (Mike Kim): That sounds like a good idea, but I hate shopping.

0:02:37 - (C): Yeah.

0:02:37 - (Mike Kim): So I don't want to go shopping. When I go somewhere, I can order it and then ship it there.

0:02:42 - (Tawni Nguyen): What if it doesn't fit you?

0:02:43 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, that's why you just stick with the clothes, you know, like Lululemon. They should endorse me. I hope they do support the podcast here. Support the podcast or support me, right?

0:02:55 - (Tawni Nguyen): He's like, fuck, tawni, support me.

0:02:57 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, it's light, it's easy to pack, it's light, it's comfortable, but yeah, you find out all these trade secrets and you find out a lot about yourself and it's kind of like an art, like trying to make a home of where you are. People always say, like, home is where the heart is, right? I checked recently, I've been a Marriott member for like ten or eleven years and how many days I've actually stayed in a Marriott hotel on my own account.

0:03:21 - (Mike Kim): So this is not counting when other companies or corporations have put me up because they put it on their account. It's something like 1200 days. So I've literally spent like four years of my life in Marriott properties. It's like crazy when you think about that, like four years.

0:03:39 - (Tawni Nguyen): Are you an affiliate by any chance? Are you getting any brand deals from them?

0:03:42 - (Mike Kim): No, I'm sure there are other people who've spent more time in those hotels, but I've just stuck with it. And it's weird. There's a familiarity to like, I know which brands are what within the Marriott chain, and I kind of know what's going to look like, and it sort of feels oddly comfortable.

0:04:00 - (Tawni Nguyen): That's what they said about the Starbucks design, too. They said that they want every Starbucks to kind of feel familiar so that when you enter the space, the colors, the warmth, the texture, the wood, it makes you feel like you're at any other Starbucks so that you're not thrown off because they want people to feel just at home. And I really like that fact that you kind of take away the glamorized aspect of traveling and being the jet set life and you're man, like, this happened to me. And it's just so humanizing that most people, they're like, oh, this guy's so cool. He's traveling, he's speaking, he's in this city one day, he's in this city one day, and here you are, you're like, I don't even have clean underwear, and I got to do my laundry.

0:04:34 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. It makes me wonder, am I running from something? But no. I have a dog. I have a home. I've settled down. But I love it. To me, it's like, about tapping into the ever evolving narrative of life. I, like kind of not knowing who I'm going to meet, where I'm going to be, what I'm going to eat, where I'm going to go, and what's going to happen. I'm sort of of the mindset, like, you can't take anything with you when you die.

0:05:00 - (Mike Kim): Right? And so all you go with are your memories and the things that you've made and created and the experiences that you've had during life. Money is important to allow you to do some of those things, but I would say life's short, but it's the longest thing you ever do, so really make the most of it. And I've never regretted having those experiences. Some have been crazy, others have been great. Right. Like, others have been whatever. Right.

0:05:22 - (Mike Kim): You have those in betweens. But I just feel like when I'm, like, 90 years old, I'm not going to look back and be like, I'm really glad I didn't go take that trip. I'm really glad I stayed home and didn't go do that thing.

0:05:34 - (C): Yeah.

0:05:35 - (Mike Kim): So that's just kind of how I live right now.

0:05:37 - (C): Yeah.

0:05:37 - (Tawni Nguyen): And I'm hearing that it's such a paradox that we live in nowadays is that the more disciplined you say you are to something, like, we were talking about having a routine and having structure and having a life of design around the things that you care about, like working out and all that stuff. And we just talked about how when we get busy, for me, the first thing that goes is my social media, and then pretty much it feels like the end of the world. But it's really not, because the more present I am connected to my life, I kind of feel like I forget about my phone and things actually exist that I'm supposed to be doing to build.

0:06:10 - (Tawni Nguyen): And it's so funny that you say that, because when you say lifestyle by design, you're like, maybe I'm running away from something. But that's another thing that people don't really take a look at, is that what is it that actually brings you joy? Is it the slow moments that you slow down and you really get to reflect and be really grateful for where you are in life? Because if you're building, the irony is you got to do the boring things to get to a level of success that allows you the freedom to do all these other things?

0:06:38 - (Tawni Nguyen): Or is it the other way around to where you have to sacrifice all of your time and all of your freedom in terms of your freedom, your rituals, your routines, so that you can get all these opportunities and be in the world of abundance? Like, how do you feel about those two paradox?

0:06:54 - (Mike Kim): The way I look at it is that life is not about balance. I don't think there's such a thing as life balancing itself out. I think life is more like harmony. So if you go to a symphony, you hear an orchestra play, it's like the appropriate amount of attention to the appropriate thing for the appropriate amount of time. So you go and hear a piece and it's like, okay, this is the part where the violins are like soloing. So it's the appropriate thing. The violins, the appropriate attention, but they don't blast like the whole concert.

0:07:28 - (Mike Kim): They go in and out, and then it's like the trumpets, and then it's like whatever other. The clarinets and whatever. Right? And so life's kind of like that. I don't think it's like perfectly 8 hours. You sleep 8 hours, you work 8 hours, you have leadership time. It doesn't work that way. Right. And seasons of life don't work that way. So there were seasons where I had to slow down because I had other responsibilities and other commitments that I made.

0:07:51 - (Mike Kim): And then when I had more time on my hands, I was like, okay, I'm the only person I have to really worry about. So I can go out there and do these things and do what I want, but I'm looking forward to Sunday when I have the day off and going to kind of crash. Right. But it's the appropriate amount of attention to the appropriate thing for the appropriate amount of time. That's always helped me in my line of work.

0:08:12 - (Mike Kim): I run a marketing agency, I'm a speaker, I coach, and I do a lot of stuff in the business space. And typically the events in our industry are like in the spring and the fall. So I know it's going to get busy with travel. If I say yes to a bunch of events, it's going to get busy around then people, no surprise, they don't do events in the summer because they all want to go on vacation. And winter, they're all like, it's too cold. No one wants to travel.

0:08:36 - (Mike Kim): So, like spring and the fall, I typically know it's going to be pretty busy with travel. And that's cool. I just plan around it. Right? I just plan around it.

0:08:45 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, I'm still processing that because I love the way you articulate that it's an integration between work and life, because everyone does say that. Right. But I feel like the more people I talk to that are really into their craft for us is an obsession because they're like, damn, you're at the podcast studio. I'm like, yeah, this is the thing that I love to do.

0:09:05 - (C): Is it?

0:09:05 - (Tawni Nguyen): I'm running away from my responsibilities? No. I don't know. Ask my dog. Maybe I'm abandoning her just a little bit, but I'm not there yet to bring my dog with me. That's a funny thing, right? Because you said you have a dog.

0:09:18 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. Okay. So I got this dog about a year and a half ago, and I totally bought her on a whim. I used to have two small dogs, so it's not like she was my first. And I was walking through the shopping mall with a friend of mine, and we just randomly had to go to the mall. He was like, hey, another budy of mine has to return some clothes. Just, let's just hang out and walk around, kill some time. So I walk by the pet store at the mall, and I know you're not supposed to get pets from the store, okay? You're supposed to adopt. But I saw her, and I was like, oh, I miss dogs, because my ex wife has my dogs.

0:09:50 - (Mike Kim): And so I went in play with her, and she was, like, all up on me, and she was so cute. I was like, oh, my gosh, this is meant to be, right? So I'm like, maybe I should get her right now. And my friend was like, maybe you should sleep on it. I was like, okay. All right. And I slept on it. And then the next morning, I heard her running around my apartment. I could just hear her paws on the floor. So I go back and buy her.

0:10:11 - (Mike Kim): I get her without thinking about. She's all up on me again. I'm like, oh, this is meant to be. My friends come over that afternoon. She does the same thing to all of them. I was like, damn. I was not special. She played me, man. She just played me. She got the bag right. She got a home right.

0:10:30 - (Tawni Nguyen): She's like, I don't care. I need to get the hell out of here.

0:10:32 - (Mike Kim): She's like, one of those, man. It's. It's, like, surprising. But she's brought so much joy into my life and, like, some groundedness. But I found some amazing sitters. The lady has three young daughters, and they love her. She loves them. And they live, like, five minutes away from my house, and they're always available because three young kids, they're not going anywhere, right? Like, they've got school and stuff like that. So, yeah, I feel like sometimes I'm like, oh. I feel like I'm just, like, ditching her, but she doesn't think twice about it. I think she's happy.

0:11:04 - (Mike Kim): She's like, they feed me better, and they play with me more, so it's fine, right.

0:11:08 - (Tawni Nguyen): But it's just kids touching me at the mall.

0:11:11 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. So it's cool. It's cool.

0:11:14 - (C): Yeah.

0:11:14 - (Tawni Nguyen): That's funny, because when I got my dog and then it became Covid, so I was, like, joking. I was like, damn. That dog taught me more personal responsibility than I've ever had, even for myself. I actually feed it well. It's on time. That was the actual first routine thing that I've developed over this course of the last three years. I was like, how irresponsible am I that I don't even know when I'm going to eat? I was like, maybe I should follow this design that I designed for my dog to have a routine of when she wakes up, which is 05:00 a.m..

0:11:43 - (Tawni Nguyen): Lunch.

0:11:43 - (C): Yeah.

0:11:44 - (Tawni Nguyen): She's a freaking morning dog. Ever since I've gotten her, it's like four or 05:00 she's, like, in my face, and I'm like, oh, my God.

0:11:51 - (C): Yeah.

0:11:52 - (Tawni Nguyen): So that's really interesting how we touch on spirituality and all of these aspects of what makes a successful life that people don't see on social media, because there's a lot of things that I feel like we do that we are hesitant about posting. Either you think that you should post something or you want to post something. It kind of comes from that two pull within you that's like, maybe this is like, no one's going to care or this is a little bit too much information, but I find it really funny.

0:12:20 - (Tawni Nguyen): So, as a marketer, ever since we've shared those stories of you tapping into unblocking yourself from a lot of your limiting beliefs and all that stuff, where do you feel that has led you in your marketing, creative side?

0:12:34 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. One of the things I always say to people is that if you're thinking about what to post, what to share, because a lot of people do wonder about that. Like, should I post this or should I post that first? If you just want to express yourself, you could just post whatever you want. That's fine, right? If it's just a vehicle of self expression, it's fine. But on the other side of it, if you're concerned about building a brand or building a business or whatever, right? I just tell people, ask yourself, can you build a campfire around what you're sharing?

0:13:03 - (Mike Kim): And what I mean by that. Is it warm? Is it inviting? What happens at campfires? It's a light in a dark place. People feel like it's warm and welcoming, right? It's inclusive. It's other people sharing their stories, not just one person, right? Because too many people build a brand or they think about social media in one of two ways, and neither of them really work. Well, right? On one hand, you see people trying to sell a version of themselves. That is not true.

0:13:32 - (Mike Kim): They'll rent a mansion on Airbnb, take a bunch of photos, and they're sort of like implying that that's their house, right? It's like, so tacky, right? But people do that and then the pendulum swings the other way. And then people feel like, okay, you know what? I'm just going to be completely authentic and just be me all the time, right? But they're not really coming from a place of wholeness or healing. And yeah, they're getting attention, but so does the car accident on the freeway when everyone slows down and has to look at what's causing all the traffic.

0:14:03 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, there's a lot of eyeballs, but they don't stick around, they don't stay, and those people end up trying to sell their struggles instead of, like, a solution. Right? And they're just airing all their dirty laundry. So I just tell people, just ask yourself, can you build a campfire around what you're sharing? It doesn't always have to be some sort of content that you're trying to teach or add value or whatever. Sometimes the best content and the best performing content I teach or post, it's just stuff about my family, my dog, like my mom, when my book came out, she hates being on video. She's asian mom. She don't want to be on video.

0:14:38 - (Mike Kim): And that was one of those things where I'm like, it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. So I walked out, had my phone on, and I hand her, I was like, mom, my book came in here, and she's just like, oh. And she's just like, laughing. And what person could not identify with, like, a parent being proud of their kid for doing something?

0:14:57 - (C): Yeah.

0:14:58 - (Mike Kim): And then she said a bunch of stuff that was actually kind of funny. She's like, oh, you were really bad in school. I didn't think you had that much talent. I was like, thanks, I guess. But you worked really hard. And I guess it worked out. I was like, well, it's such an asian mom thing to say, but we have a great relationship. But so many people engaged with that post, and it was, yeah, it promoted my book in a way, but not directly, because people could understand and identify and connect with that. So that's just what I tell people.

0:15:28 - (Mike Kim): Can you build a campfire around it and then you're fine?

0:15:30 - (Tawni Nguyen): I love that lens on it. Because when you bring up authenticity and people just sharing a lot of their problems, right? Because I feel like the world is so separated in terms of when people post the things that they think it's vulnerable, they're asking for pretty much attention. It's attention seeking. They're like, hey, I'm going through all of these things. And other people feel like they should judge them. Be like, oh, this person's like throwing away their whole life. They're sharing way too much. But I think they also lack that.

0:16:00 - (Tawni Nguyen): I think in a way, they kind of envy that that person has the courage to even share with a bunch of strangers. No matter how many followers you think you have, I don't care if you have 1000 followers, 10,000 followers. And it kind of comes down to, what do you think makes a person authentic? When you hear someone's voice on social media versus in real life, what makes an authentic person?

0:16:23 - (Mike Kim): I think as long as they're honest about their feelings, I think that's not about their opinions or whatnot. It's just like any relation. I always tell people, marketing isn't about closing a sale, it's about opening a relationship. That's all it is, right? That's all marketing is. So no relationship ever in your life can really thrive if you're hiding parts of yourself from that person, whether it's a romantic relationship, friendships, or whatnot, anything, right.

0:16:57 - (Mike Kim): If you're always hiding a part of yourself, that's where the inauthenticity starts to creep in. That's when performing, and that's like pretending like you're not who you are starts to creep in. Now, yeah, there is a part where if you're on social media and creating content, it's easy for other people to shoot you down and for public opinion to go a certain way. So, yeah, I get that piece. Right. But when I look at somebody, I'm not really asking are they being fake or authentic or not? I'm looking for range.

0:17:33 - (Mike Kim): Are they able to comfortably share a range of emotions? Or a range of feelings. Right. It's not that they're always happy and positive. Can they share sometimes when they're frustrated or maybe when they're really ticked off, but they're not sharing from an open wound. Right. A lot of my best content over the last five years was when I opened up a little bit about some personal stuff that went through, went through divorce a couple of years ago. Five years ago.

0:18:01 - (Mike Kim): But I didn't share it while I was going through it after. Yeah, I did it like two, three years after. And I was like, I'm finally ready to talk about this now. And I wrote a piece on my site in a way that my ex could read it and not feel bad. That was my filter. Because what am I going to do? Just like, I could say something bad about her, but she's going to come right back and say, she could say a ton of bad stuff about me. Right?

0:18:30 - (Mike Kim): No one's ever totally right in that scenario. Right? So I'm like, how do I share a lot of this stuff from a place of, hey, I've got a scar, but it's not an open wound. And I think what I see a lot of people do is they share from open wounds or this hurt me. And I see a lot of people who are experts in my industry do this. They will screenshot hate mail that they get from people, like emails or social media comments. I'm like, that just makes you look super insecure.

0:19:03 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. Everyone knows people can be stupid online. We don't need to read your stuff about how people are saying stupid stuff to you. That doesn't add any value to me. Right. So I'm always just trying to look for range in what they're sharing. If they say that they are, like, I'm going to teach you how to live a great life. All right? Great. If people want to learn how to live a great life from somebody else, fine.

0:19:28 - (Mike Kim): I tell my people, I'm not going to tell you how to live your life, I'm just going to live mine. If there are aspects of it that can pull from great. Chew the meat, spit out the bones. Right? But I'm going to post range. I'm looking for range. And I think that's what people want. It's not a real relationship. Like social media is weird. It's a parasocial relationship. It's not completely the same thing as.

0:19:57 - (Mike Kim): I'll pose you a question. I ran this by a bunch of people. If you have never met a person face to face and you only talked on Zoom, have you actually met? Okay, you've only met somebody on Zoom. Have you actually met?

0:20:13 - (Tawni Nguyen): That's true. I had this exact thought when I had to teach students through Zoom, and it was so disengaging that we're all freaking out. It was Covid. And this exact prompt kind of came up. It's like, do we actually know each other? Because we don't have the face to face interaction. But in the zoom, we're like, well, we're face to face, but we don't have each other's energy. There's actually no exchange. Like, you actually can't feel how they feel, or you can't feel just in their space.

0:20:42 - (Tawni Nguyen): It's really hard. If you've only met on Zoom. Have you ever really met?

0:20:49 - (C): Yeah.

0:20:49 - (Tawni Nguyen): Okay, I see where the question is.

0:20:51 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, I don't think so.

0:20:52 - (Tawni Nguyen): I think on the superficial layers, yes, you know, of the person, but I would never introduce, like, hey, this is my friend that I know from Zoom. Yeah.

0:21:00 - (Mike Kim): It's so weird, right? So now we're dealing with this whole other level of human interaction where it feels real, but it's not. And then where everyone has a platform if their accounts are public and everyone has a platform, and you're dealing with this whole other level of expectations from people you don't even know. I posted this thing on Facebook, which is, I hate Facebook. I just admit it. I hate it. But it's a necessary evil, right?

0:21:31 - (Mike Kim): And I think I posted a picture of myself wearing a suit because I was at an event. I never wear suits, right? So everyone gets surprised when I wear suits. I had to dress up. And these people are, like, looking good, my friend. I don't even know your name.

0:21:49 - (Tawni Nguyen): Who are you?

0:21:49 - (Mike Kim): Bob. No, seriously. I was like, this is so od. And if I posted something that they disagreed with, they would have been like, you're blah, blah, blah, and they would have felt a genuine betrayal, and I'd be like, who are you? I literally don't know who you are. And it's like, I'm not saying that I'm better than them. I'm just saying there's a level of interaction now that we've never had to deal with before as human beings.

0:22:16 - (Mike Kim): Like this parasocial relationship.

0:22:19 - (Tawni Nguyen): I really like that word because I've talked to some people online through dms, and we'll meet at a real estate event. They're like, oh, it's so good to finally meet you in person. Oh, you are just as funny as your reels. I'm like, okay, you know what I get?

0:22:32 - (Mike Kim): You're way taller than I'm like, of course. What are we going to do, stand up on Zoom for a height reference, right? You only see me from here. I'm 63.

0:22:43 - (Tawni Nguyen): I think it's an asian thing, too. They just assume Asians to be shorter. Maybe especially asian males are not past. Like, I think 62 is probably the highest, right? It's like, that's the epitome of asian male height. But I don't know. I think it's just funny that we do have a layer of superficiality, but we have to kind of break through all of that for creative expression. And when you actually show yourself and people actually see you, which part of you are they seeing?

0:23:11 - (Tawni Nguyen): And that thing kind of still shocks me because I was talking to Sean, right, about this is how I've been living my life, is I know I have to be on social media, and I've been talking to some old friends, right? They're like, oh, you seem so. Like, how much energy does it take to always be on? I'm like, honestly, that's why I get off social media when my energy needs me to be present in real life. It's because I can't be on all the time, and people that are positive all the time, it's fake, and they're probably miserable. It's because toxic positivity is one of those things that I really hate. And kind of mainstream spirituality kind of came out with that, like, oh, good vibes only, da da da. I'm like, no, show me. Like, you set the range of emotions. Like, no, show me your dirt. Show me your baggage. If I'm truly your friend, I can sit here with you and go through stuff with you. That's what a true friend is. But if you hit even a little bit of struggle and you can't really connect with someone, that's the disconnection that I feel like it's heavily dominated now in social media is that everyone is forced to be happy all the time and pulse all of their wins. But if someone posts is like, oh, this happened to me today, I don't know, I lost a cell or something. And people are like, this person's always complaining about their problem, right? And it's so hard for us to even find that synergy in between.

0:24:24 - (Tawni Nguyen): What the hell do you want me to be? It's really hard to be yourself. And it's like, how would you live your life if social media didn't exist? Would that change your business?

0:24:34 - (Mike Kim): It wouldn't change my business too. Much. I actually kind of went through this because I was like, I don't love doing social media. I honestly don't. I view it, like, might not be a great example, but what's a good guiding principle for the world's best drug dealers? You don't get high on your own supply, right? So here I am. I have this business, and people see all this stuff on social media. I don't read my own headlines. I don't read my own.

0:25:05 - (Mike Kim): Like, I know that that is not reality at all. So there were times during COVID no one could travel. I just abandoned my Instagram account and Facebook and all that. I was like, whatever. What am I supposed to post? We're all locked up at home, right? It didn't hurt my business. I built my business different ways, like, through email lists, I had a podcast and stuff like that. But we were talking about this a little bit earlier. But I actually feel social media does not represent how good my life is.

0:25:38 - (Mike Kim): And it's not good because I'm having all these experiences and traveling. Like, that's a huge part of it. But I actually like my life. I really enjoy my life. It doesn't mean that it's all easy. I think that's what people get screwed up in their minds. Like, easy means it's good. It's not. I don't want anything easy. You don't want anything easy? We talked a little bit about this on my show. We're pretty intense people.

0:26:07 - (Mike Kim): We like to work hard. We like to feel like we're at our edge and using the highest capabilities that we have. And yet the real work is just learning to really love yourself and being. Accept yourself. And how are you supposed to show that on social media?

0:26:25 - (C): Yeah.

0:26:26 - (Mike Kim): Right?

0:26:26 - (C): Yeah.

0:26:26 - (Tawni Nguyen): Did you have the same level of self love as you do now? And let's just say, like from Mike Kim, ten years ago, when you were beginning in your careers, as you would call it, right, do you envision this level of happiness and success that you feel in your present day and how that looks like what you wanted your life to look like ten years ago?

0:26:45 - (Mike Kim): I think ten years ago, I was in a present negative, trying to go to a future positive. That's how I looked at it.

0:26:54 - (C): Okay.

0:26:54 - (Mike Kim): I want to get out of my day job. I want to just do something that fulfills me and so on and so forth. But that's a very blanket statement, though, because you have a present negative, but you also have a present positive. Your life, everything. Life in life is 100% bad, usually, right? Like, there are some people who are in very extenuating circumstances where, yes, it's all really bad, right? They got to get out.

0:27:22 - (Mike Kim): But I was living in Jersey. I had a good job, six figure. Like, yeah, I could complain about certain things, but I could view it like I'm in a present negative and trying to go to a future positive, but there's also future negative. When I became my own boss and started my business, I was like, man, there's a lot more responsibilities than I thought. I joke with people. I'm the worst boss I've ever had.

0:27:51 - (C): Why?

0:27:52 - (Mike Kim): I make myself work all the time. I don't give myself time off. I'm like, the worst boss I've ever had.

0:27:58 - (Tawni Nguyen): That's the biggest challenge you had to overcome, is yourself to become your own boss.

0:28:01 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. In some ways, yeah. Right. In some ways, yes, I loved it. But I would never treat my friends or an employee or a contractor the way I treated myself and the expectations that I had. But I could always justify it. Like, this is what it takes to get the business off the ground. I have to say yes to this. I have to say yes to that. I have to go there. I have to go here. So it's never a complete picture. And I think what we tend to do is we see these people on social media, and we think that's their whole life, or we think what we're putting there is our whole life, and that that's what people want from us.

0:28:38 - (Mike Kim): I've worked with very, very well known people, and it's lonely. It's difficult. Right. They don't feel like people really understand them or they have to put on a performance. And yes, they do. In a lot of ways, they do. People don't want to necessarily understand or get to know the totality of who their heroes are. It's more convenient to say, this is my favorite basketball player. This is my favorite politician. This is my favorite online guru.

0:29:06 - (Mike Kim): I need that. Don't give me anything else. And then when they do something that's a little bit outside of what's expected, they feel like it's off brand or that they've betrayed them. Right. Like, stick to your lane, stay in your lane. And they say stuff like that. And what everybody really wants at the end of the day is to be able to be themselves and be loved and accepted for being themselves. That's ultimately what I believe all human beings want.

0:29:34 - (C): Yeah.

0:29:35 - (Tawni Nguyen): Why do you think it's so hard for people to actually put down the performative mask and actually go for fulfillment? And what are the limiting beliefs that you feel. It's always holding people back. It's the six figure job. It's the relationship they're supposed to be in, or what are those factors?

0:29:51 - (Mike Kim): I think you named a few. And where do those all come from? It's like what society has conditioned us to believe. Right. And also, let's be real. It's about how society operates. It operates. It's able to continue functioning because of those beliefs or that message. Right. Look, I can go on and say, like, hey, you deserve to have full agency over your life and do whatever you want and follow your passions and make a great living doing it.

0:30:26 - (Mike Kim): But I'm gonna be honest. I'm really glad that people work at Amazon or there are people who collect the trash in our city. I don't think if you ask them, is this, like, how you envision your life? They would say, yeah. I don't think that they would say yes. But we all need all of that for society to be. To function. Right. In the beginning, I used to feel really weird about this because I'd be, oh, like, I literally coach people how to leave their day job and become their own boss, and yet I have people working for.

0:31:07 - (C): Yeah.

0:31:08 - (Mike Kim): Like, it's a little bit of paradox, right?

0:31:10 - (C): Yeah.

0:31:11 - (Mike Kim): And I remember hiring Chelsea, who's now worked with me for seven or eight years, and I asked her, what do you envision your life being? Like, what do you want to do with your life? And she's like, I want to be a lifestyle entrepreneur and be my own boss. And I said, awesome. Let's get that out of the way. At least I know the day that I stand in the way of that, the day that you working for me stands in the way of that is the day you should leave.

0:31:39 - (Mike Kim): Like, leave me. Let me figure things out on my own. I will. Bless you. I will be your biggest supporter. And she's done that, and she still continues to work with me because I think I had that mentality. Right. But we need all, like, society works because of some of these things that you said, right. So we got to be honest about that. But I think for the few who want to leave that behind, it's tough. It's tough to unlearn.

0:32:12 - (C): Yeah.

0:32:12 - (Tawni Nguyen): Because there's a lot of terms like the rat race, the matrix, and all of these things that make it sound really bad. But I've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs. They're like, you know, sometimes I wish I went back and got a w two because there's more control or I feel like there's more evolution of control in my life than entrepreneurship has given me. It's like a freaking roller coaster, you know? I know.

0:32:34 - (Tawni Nguyen): And some months you're, like, crying by yourself, and people don't know anything behind what it is that we actually have to face and all the fears and stuff. How do you think that has shaped you from the minute you became your own boss to the Michael that's sitting right in front of me, right on this casting couch and the lessons that you wish you would have known before you made that decision?

0:32:57 - (Mike Kim): I think if I were to tell the guy who started that, these struggles would be there. He wouldn't have believed me anyway, really? So I'm just like, when you start, you have blinders on, and sometimes that's good. You just do what you're supposed to do. It's more, actually, in the last two years where I've really felt like, gosh, this is hard. I finally started to admit this is pretty hard. Like, oh, I chose a much harder route.

0:33:29 - (Mike Kim): And I would look at things that I did 4567 years ago and be like, I can't believe I did that, dude, this was a badass, like, little fucker. He just didn't care. And now I'm like, I don't know if it's because I'm getting older, like, slowing down, whatever it is. I don't know. Or maybe I'm just getting healthier and admitting, like, dang, I worked pretty hard, or I did some pretty incredible things. I'm finally able to give myself credit for it.

0:33:56 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, like, you wrote a book. Did you ever see? Was that on your vision board? Let's just say when you first began, like, I'm going to write a book one day, and I'm going to speak on stage one day.

0:34:06 - (Mike Kim): I didn't have, like, a one day. I was more like, I know I'm capable of doing that, and I will not like myself if I don't do it. I will not like myself and be content with myself because I know I didn't leave it on the field, and I just made my life so busy that I couldn't settle down enough to pay attention to some of those things. So when actually Covid happened and we all got locked down, that's when I wrote my book.

0:34:33 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, I wrote the majority of my book in a bar that a lady I had gotten to know ran in Virginia, and the content of my book was all stuff that I knew worked because I'd coached on it for, like, five years. I taught it. I had done keynotes on it. The world locked down, so I knew that the content was good and that it helped people really move forward. I just had to do the work and get it done. And this is so bad, but you find your own way to motivate yourself.

0:35:05 - (Mike Kim): There was a guy I knew. We weren't super tight, but he wrote a book, and it was not good. It was not a good book. And he got a publishing deal and everything. And I took the book, and I put a big black marker. If this guy can do it, you can. I put it in front of my tv. I put it in front of my tv so I wouldn't watch tv.

0:35:26 - (C): Yeah.

0:35:27 - (Mike Kim): And I would just, like, look at that every morning. Be like, you better get to work, but in seat time. Right? Like, ask to the chair time. You just got to put in the work. And I learned a lot about myself. I had to mix up the environment. That's why I went out to the bar. I couldn't work on it on my laptop. My laptop reminded me too much of work. Like, too many zoom calls. Like, so much of that, it was just like. So I had to change up the modality.

0:36:00 - (C): Yeah.

0:36:01 - (Tawni Nguyen): Separate your environment from your normal condition environment.

0:36:05 - (Mike Kim): So it was on my phone and at this lady's bar, while they were making takeout, that's how they kept the bar afloat. Like hustle, right? Hustling to keep the doors open. Because they couldn't have patrons come in. They would just do takeout, and they would send it out. And she's like, yeah, you could just come by. We have our staff here. Just hang out at the bar. You can just chill out. And I supported, of course, I didn't drink her alcohol for free. I was just like, hey, a couple hundred bucks, whatever.

0:36:34 - (Mike Kim): Help you keep the doors open, help you keep the lights on and just there for other people. Right. So I have a ton of respect for entrepreneurs, business owners, because that's a level of hustle that most people don't understand.

0:36:47 - (C): Yeah.

0:36:47 - (Tawni Nguyen): Just to keep your business open. Being there 12 hours a day, 14, 16 hours a day. And I have a high level respect for the psychology that you use on yourself, because you're like, if this guy could do it, you can do it. I never thought of it that way. It's always like, use your pain and turn into your power or something. You read something so shitty, and it's just like, this guy's way less credible than me. Like, there's fucking grammar issues in there. This is not even a sentence.

0:37:13 - (Tawni Nguyen): And sometimes you're like, what the fuck? If this fucking person can do it.

0:37:16 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. I'm kind of driven by that in a weird way. I guess in certain instances, I want to be challenged. Most people don't challenge me. They're like, oh, hey, you're good at what you do. And I'm like, told my trainer, my physical trainer, he's a nice guy. I said, I don't want to know what we're working on. I don't want to know what body part. They usually split it, like, chest and back and legs. Today's leg day. I don't even want to know what day it is.

0:37:49 - (Mike Kim): I don't want to know what moves we're doing. I don't want to know how many sets. I don't want to know how many reps, and I don't want to know the weight. Just make me do it. And I just turn my brain off. Like there's a piece to that. And I'm like, you can yell at me. Like, you can push me harder than you think because I can take it. Yeah, right? And there's a piece of that that I didn't know that really motivates.

0:38:23 - (Mike Kim): Like, some might say that's toxic or whatever. It just works for, like, yeah, once in a while, I watch David Goggins videos. I'm like, this is great.

0:38:31 - (C): Yeah.

0:38:32 - (Tawni Nguyen): It's like the fear of the unknown is not even a fear to you. You actually like diving into the unknown, and you sound like a masochist because the last couple of times we were talking, you're like, I like, really intense shit. I need chaotic environments because I need to thrive.

0:38:46 - (Mike Kim): I'm learning to make peace with peace, right? And, like, peace with boredom, because that's definitely a thing. You start wondering, I think I can take a lot of intensity. But then I'm just like, why is my life always like this? I like to solve too many problems. Like, what, do I have this hero complex or something? Right?

0:39:04 - (C): Yeah.

0:39:05 - (Mike Kim): And you realize that's where the work really takes you, right? You got to focus on that.

0:39:11 - (Tawni Nguyen): How do you feel that element of your personality affects your relationship with women since your divorce?

0:39:20 - (Mike Kim): Okay, so it's a good conversation. All right, let me figure out where I want to start with all this.

0:39:28 - (Tawni Nguyen): Lana's all excited.

0:39:31 - (Mike Kim): I feel like I didn't date a lot before I got married because we met at church. And so this was, like, the second relationship that I'd actually ever been in, and I married her. So when I got divorced, it was like dating for the first time, really. But now you're old enough and you have a little bit of money, so you're not bound by the same restrictions that you were when you were, like, 16. Right.

0:39:59 - (Tawni Nguyen): Or, like, trying to take someone a jack in a box.

0:40:01 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. Let's go to the mall. Right. Like, I'll pick you up on my bike or something. Right. So it was a really eye opening experience, and one of the best pieces of advice I got, I did not see this coming. He was a pastor that I knew from, like, 13 years old, and he goes, go on a lot of dates. I'm like, what you of all people is telling me? He's like, yeah, go on a lot of dates. Otherwise you'll just pick ex wife version 2.0.

0:40:30 - (Mike Kim): I thought that was really good advice because I definitely could see that I was looking for her in other people that I met, and I was comparing the people I met to her because I really did love her.

0:40:40 - (C): Yeah.

0:40:41 - (Mike Kim): And I probably took it to the extreme. He's probably met, like, on, like, ten dates. I went on, like, 100. Yeah. Ten exit. Right. I don't do anything halfway. Right. Like, all the way.

0:40:55 - (Tawni Nguyen): I became a man whore. Yeah.

0:40:57 - (Mike Kim): And I went through that phase for sure. Right. And I think that part of it was trying because I felt really rejected and I felt very. I told her once, no one ever made me feel ugly the way that you did. I just felt like this old pair of jeans that you didn't wear anymore, but you didn't want anymore either. You also didn't want to throw away is what I'm saying. You didn't want me anymore, but you also didn't want to let me go. So that was really tough to navigate.

0:41:35 - (Mike Kim): So when I went out and started going on dates and stuff like that, I was very upfront. I'm like, I'm going through a divorce, or I'm not divorced yet. It's going to happen. We're just waiting for the court, but all the papers are signed and everything. And it was definitely a season of finding myself in a way that I didn't have the opportunity to do before.

0:42:03 - (C): Yeah.

0:42:03 - (Mike Kim): Right. So I noticed the kind of people I was attracted to, the people that were attracted to me, how the world really worked in a lot of ways I didn't ever experience. Right. So to experience that in my late 30s, early 40s, for the first time in life, I felt like, this is interesting. This is kind of overwhelming. It was a lot.

0:42:29 - (C): Yeah.

0:42:30 - (Mike Kim): But I don't look back and say, I wish I didn't do those things or I'm ashamed of who that guy was, because I always felt like I was upfront and honest, and I like that about how I conducted those years. So it was a big learning experience. I also found that a lot of people wanted to change me and that for the people that I really liked, the girls that I liked, I found that I was willing to change a lot of myself for them.

0:43:04 - (Mike Kim): Right. And then those are the patterns that I started to notice. Why are you compromising who you really are for this person? You don't even know that well, only gone on a few dates and trying to act a certain way and all that stuff. Right. It was just very interesting for me to see those patterns, and I never would have seen them and learned them about myself had I not gone through that.

0:43:26 - (C): Yeah.

0:43:26 - (Tawni Nguyen): So a couple of things I picked up is that you were looking for a pattern of your ex wife in your dating scene. Did you find a lot of versions of yourself that you were trying to heal at the time, too? Because you said she made you pretty much stop feeling seen and wanted and loved, which is the core needs of who we are as human beings.

0:43:48 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, there was a tremendous sense of pain around that, for sure. Pain around her mom, too. I always thought we had a great relationship, and it wasn't like I was married for, like, a year. Yeah, it was like ten years when all that stuff happened. And I don't think I ever shared this publicly. A lot of my friends know about it in private, but they were korean, so her parents lived in Korea. And when all this stuff happened, I didn't do any of, like, I wasn't the cause of it, is what I'm saying.

0:44:28 - (Mike Kim): I don't want to say anything about my ex or whatever, but had I cheated or done something wrong, I could understand, right? So her mom came and saw her one morning. We had separated for a few weeks, so I came back to the house, and I woke up in the morning, and her mom was there at the house. I walked downstairs and greet her, and she's like, don't call me your mother in law. I was like, what? Don't address me as your mother in law. Let's just get this over with as quick as possible. I was like, I didn't do this.

0:45:13 - (Mike Kim): Your daughter did this. And that was really hard, really painful. And I didn't realize it until someone asked me, where's the wound hurt the most? I was surprised how much that hurt. It wasn't, like, from my ex. It was from her mom. And so we had been separated for a little while, and all our pictures were taken off the wall and all of my clothes were taken from the master bedroom and thrown into the guest room.

0:45:48 - (Mike Kim): That's, like, the first time I had stayed in my house, like, three or four weeks.

0:45:52 - (C): Yeah.

0:45:53 - (Mike Kim): And so that level of, like, we're just going to cut you off again. If I had done something, I could understand that kind of rejection. Yeah. It was just so brutal. Right.

0:46:09 - (C): Can I ask a question?

0:46:11 - (Mike Kim): Yeah.

0:46:11 - (Tawni Nguyen): What did she tell them for them to be treating you like that if.

0:46:15 - (C): You didn't do shit?

0:46:16 - (Mike Kim): I don't know.

0:46:16 - (Tawni Nguyen): She told them something.

0:46:18 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. I don't know till this day, and I'm okay with not knowing. Right. Like, I'm like, this is as far as it's going to go. I'm never going to get certain answers. I don't need to know. It's fine.

0:46:29 - (Tawni Nguyen): Do you feel like you have closure?

0:46:31 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, 1000%.

0:46:33 - (C): Yeah.

0:46:33 - (Tawni Nguyen): Like, you close the wound. As you said, it's a scar now. And you're happy moving on and sharing that?

0:46:39 - (Mike Kim): She's gotten remarried. I'm super happy for her. I wish him the best, but I honestly don't know.

0:46:46 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, you're actually a really positive ex, because there's a lot of exes I've met that are really bitter and resentful towards their ex, and they don't like their ex just as much. And I'm like, why can't you just be happy for this person? I found myself in those conversations, and I'm like, wow, these are really bitter human beings that I hope. I take that as a motto of how I don't want to turn out to be. If any of my relationship felt like I still want to be happy for another human being just because they deserve to be happy, just not with me, obviously, it's a misalignment.

0:47:20 - (Tawni Nguyen): Start fresh, rip the band aid, move on.

0:47:22 - (Mike Kim): Yeah. And maybe it was partially because when we got married, we were young, we were in our twenty s, and I was older than her. And the age difference is a lot more when you're in your 20s than later on in life. That's another thing I realized. Right. So we were seven years apart. When you're in your 20s, that's a big gap. Like, on the lower end of the younger end of the spectrum, you're just kind of graduating college.

0:47:52 - (C): Yeah.

0:47:52 - (Mike Kim): Right. And on the other end of the spectrum, you're just starting to really find your footing in what you're going to do with work and your life and stuff like that. Now I meet somebody who's 7810 years younger. It's not a big deal, right? Different age and stage in life. But I cared and loved her. I really did. And that's why I took it so hard, what had happened. And in fairness to her, if she was sitting here, she would say, but you ended it.

0:48:24 - (Mike Kim): And I did. I ended the marriage. Right, like, she started it, but I ended it.

0:48:32 - (C): Yeah.

0:48:32 - (Mike Kim): Right. And I could then fire back and be like, yeah, but you wanted to end it. You just didn't have the guts to do it. And we can go back and forth for eternity.

0:48:41 - (Tawni Nguyen): It's like a string back and forth.

0:48:43 - (Mike Kim): What the hell is the point?

0:48:43 - (Tawni Nguyen): Blame game.

0:48:44 - (Mike Kim): Hey, thanks for being in my life. I loved you. You loved me. I know that in our own ways, we did. If anyone's tuning in, watching or listening and struggling with hitting the wall in a relationship, one of the things there's trickle down counseling. Okay? So I can't take the credit for this, but one of my counselors said this. She's like, for ten years, you guys known three dance moves, and it's worked for ten years.

0:49:15 - (Mike Kim): But if you don't learn some new dance moves, this dance is going to end. And I was like, that is freaking brilliant. And you asked me before, Tony, there are parts of us that I think we were hiding from each other, that we couldn't trust the other person with, for whatever reason. Definitely on my end. And at the same time, I can also admit, yeah, I really love this person. And it was incredibly painful. It was the hardest thing I went through as an adult.

0:49:51 - (C): Yeah.

0:49:52 - (Mike Kim): And I can still be like, I'm so happy for you that you found somebody and that you're moving on.

0:49:59 - (C): Yeah.

0:49:59 - (Tawni Nguyen): I still have that core wound of the marriage thing that we talked about. Not only that, it's the biggest financial decision of your life. Right. Because in life and business is that. That's your partner, that's who you build with. And what you said exactly is, I feel what a lot of people lack is if they've been together for a long time, 20 years, and they only know that version of whoever got into the relationship 20 years ago. And they don't evolve with each other and they just continue to grow apart, but be like six inches apart in the same bed, but they don't feel the emotional connection.

0:50:31 - (Tawni Nguyen): I think that's the most loneliest feeling. That's the feeling that I couldn't describe the other day. But I think that's what we go on, and that's kind of the core wounds that we carry that same insecurity into the next relationship, and we should project that into the next person thinking that it's their fault, but it's really a core wound.

0:50:50 - (Mike Kim): I couldn't give that to her. I look at who I was in that relationship now, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I get it. And she probably looks at it now, too, because we're cordial and all that. She probably couldn't give that to me. And it's never 100% someone's fault unless you're a narcissist, because narcissists are never wrong.

0:51:13 - (Tawni Nguyen): They're a victim in everything.

0:51:14 - (Mike Kim): They're a victim in everything, right.

0:51:15 - (Tawni Nguyen): I cheated on you, but it's your fault.

0:51:17 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, well, I wish we could put them all on an island and just let them sift things out. It would be an interesting social.

0:51:26 - (Tawni Nguyen): Sell them to a bunch of rich people.

0:51:28 - (Mike Kim): Yeah, but now it sounds like I'm being evil. Evil. Yeah. And I don't really mean that. I know at the core it's because they're hurting.

0:51:35 - (Tawni Nguyen): And I'd watch that on Hulu. I would watch that on Hulu. That's next level squid game.

0:51:40 - (C): Yeah.

0:51:40 - (Tawni Nguyen): Call that like ho game or something. The Narcy games. Can we patent that, please?

0:51:48 - (C): Okay.

0:51:48 - (Tawni Nguyen): Can we try to. This is not human trafficking.

0:51:50 - (Mike Kim): Right? It's not kidnapping on man. It's escaping my mind right now.

0:51:57 - (Tawni Nguyen): There's a lot of narcissistic books out there with.

0:52:02 - (Mike Kim): Anyway, I know some childhood, like, a bunch of kids, like, growing up on an island and they have to fight for their life. Yeah. So it sort of plays out like that. Right. But, yeah, it's never 100% one person's fault or the other. And she had, I'm sure she felt really alone, as did I. And you have two people who feel really alone and misunderstood, and it's just going to work out that way unless you can learn some new dance moves.

0:52:37 - (C): Yeah.

0:52:38 - (Tawni Nguyen): Is there one lesson or philosophy that you've learned to this day and age, of all of your journey through your relationships and business, of how you want to live your life, that you can summarize into one key?

0:52:55 - (Mike Kim): I think you just have to learn to love yourself and accept yourself and love yourself. It sounds so cliche, but at the end of the day, that's who you have to spend your life with. I had a friend, they celebrated their kids one year birthday. So we all went out there and we had to write something in a notebook for her, for his daughter. And I wrote love yourself. It's who you have to spend the rest of your life with.

0:53:29 - (Mike Kim): And that's really it. Right? Like, I know a little bit about how you grew up. You know a little bit now of my background, and no matter where I travel, how many times I spill my laundry on the sidewalk or whatever, whatever hotel room I'm in, whoever I'm with, I'm still with myself. And if you don't like that person and love them and learn to, especially if you had a tough childhood growing up, cannot reparent who you were or become the person you wish you had when you were growing up, it's going to be very tough moving forward, and you're going to try to find that in other people.

0:54:15 - (Mike Kim): And you cannot outsource that. It's one of those things that you cannot outsource. Like, in life, you cannot outsource working out. You have to pick up the weight and put it down. There are certain things in life that in this level of existence, you just cannot outsource. And self love and self acceptance is one of those things. You can't outsource it. You do, you're going to end up just hurting yourself more.

0:54:47 - (Mike Kim): Right? So I would say that that's really it.

0:54:52 - (C): Yeah.

0:54:53 - (Tawni Nguyen): Wow, that was really profound. I have some chills going on.

0:54:56 - (Mike Kim): It's not just cold in here.

0:54:57 - (Tawni Nguyen): I'm getting cold.

0:54:59 - (Mike Kim): Might have been the shrooms that I took before, but I'm feeling a little cold.

0:55:06 - (Tawni Nguyen): Thanks, guys, for tuning in. You can find Mike on Instagram at Mike Kim and all of his work and all of his dirty laundry will be there. Maybe, who knows? Maybe it's not even him. Maybe it's a social media manager. I don't know. Oh, I'm looking at the wrong camera.

0:55:20 - (Mike Kim): I do not have a social media manager.

0:55:22 - (Tawni Nguyen): Yeah, that sounds like me. I'm like, oh, I'm looking at the wrong hole. Wrong hole. I'm trying to put in the wrong hole.

0:55:29 - (Mike Kim): Nice.

0:55:31 - (Tawni Nguyen): Thanks for tuning in and spending some time with us. I hope you got some value from today. I'm Tawni .

0:55:37 - (Mike Kim): I'm Mike.

0:55:37 - (Tawni Nguyen): Stay fit, stay frugal. Bye.